ESA (Electronic Substance Abuse)

The chaos conduit Jamie Blacker of ESA visits in the Void to discuss his latest record, life, headlining Dark Force Fest, and crafting visceral music videos that feel more like films. His art is passion over profit, bleak yet beautiful. Jamie and Brian Prime discuss if music videos still matter, the future and past of ESA, and forthcoming appearances.

Stay loud, stay connected, and catch ESA tearing the roof off festivals worldwide.


Featured Songs:
ESA - Pound of Flesh

https://esangp.bandcamp.com/ for more ESA.


Void Signal intro courtesy of Processor. Visit https://processor2.bandcamp.com for more Processor.

Transcript

Hello again, and welcome to Void Signal. I’m your host, Brian Prime. I hope your holidays are kind and your home peaceful. I've got another Void Signal for you and this one is with Jamie Blacker of Electronic Substance Abuse, or ESA, for short. Before founding ESA in the early 2000s, Jamie was involved in the UK black and death metal scenes. ESA has played shows all around the globe and headlined multiple festivals, including Mechanismus, and in 2026 will headline at Dark Force Fest for the first time. I can't wait for Dark Force to see what I've seen. 

His latest album, Sounds for your Happiness, is Jamie continuing to deliver on the threat that ESA began with back in 2006. The chaos of sound that he assembles with a masterful deftness and thunderous beats. There's a raw energy that he sends into the universe in his music and his live performances.

In addition to making and performing his music for nearly 20 years, he's also directed several of his own music videos. Jamie's attention to artistic detail comes through in every thing he does, and the videos are no exception. I recommend giving them a watch, especially if you enjoy horror films. 


But before we get into that, I just want to mention once again that Void Signal is made for people, not algorithms, not advertisers, and it’s always been ad-free and powered by listeners like you. You can help support the Void Signal project for as little as two dollars a month. Please consider visiting voidsignal.net or patreon.com/voidsignal to sign up, it actually helps me a lot, and I’m deeply appreciative of everyone who contributes.

Void Signal’s intro music is courtesy of Processor — you can check out more at processor2.bandcamp.com

Okay, our time is at an end. As always, thank you so much for listening. Stay safe, stay loud. Cheers.


ESA
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Brian Prime: [00:00:00] Yep. I can hear you. Can you hear me okay? 

Jamie Blacker: I can hear you. Cool, cool. 

Brian Prime: This is audio only. You can turn your camera on if you want to. Um, 

Jamie Blacker: you do not wanna see me right now, Brian. Oh, babe, 

Brian Prime: you always look so good though. 

Jamie Blacker: Well, it, it, this would be your biggest let down if you did see me right now. A very, uh, stressed, busy individual, stilling a house out.

So I am, uh, I'm not looking at my finest. 

Brian Prime: No problem. Well, thank you so much for your time. I will turn my camera off then so that you don't have to look at me. Thank you so much for taking the time to get this going. Um, we'll just go ahead and start. And just forego an intro and everything. Uh, it's good to hear from you.

It's good to hear your voice and, uh, talk with you in the live and personal. I've caught up on all of your recent music videos. The new record is amazing, by the way. It is absolute fire. Thank you. Um, the music videos are also, I mean, my [00:01:00] expectations for you are always high, admittedly, but uh, you just knocked it outta the park and they just look so good and yeah.

Wonderful. Splendid work. Anyway. How are things for you aside from busy and stressed? 

Jamie Blacker: Yeah, things are good. Yeah, I, I appreciate your comments. That's, that's kind of the problem though, isn't it? When you, um, when you have high expectations, you know, people do have those high expectations, so you kinda like, I can't really go back now to, uh, taking video in the bathroom.

It's gotta be, yeah. You can't phone it in. Yeah, it's, it's gotta, it is gotta keep you know, increasing production value and improving which is a good thing because it pushes you and, um, you know, those kind of challenges are always good for you to get to explore different things and push you in your professionalism.

But also it's, uh, it's a little chunk of pressure. But it's a good position to be in for people to be expecting, you know, good stuff from [00:02:00] you. But other than that, yeah, things are good. Just got back from, well, I say I just got back from Japan. Think about 10 days ago. That was a fun trip.

Before that it was France and I am in your how shall I describe it? I mean, I'm in your meltdown of a country in a few days, probably rather on Wednesday. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Meltdown of a country is pretty apropos, uh, for the, for the moment. Uh, 

Jamie Blacker: yeah, it's, um, it's a fun experience being a, a European and watching maybe fun is the wrong word, but yeah, we're getting to see maybe not a, a true in life like picture of exactly what's going on, just the worst bits and some of the best bits.

But yeah, maybe I'll, uh, I'll when I get there and I'll be like, oh, is this it? That's a lot calmer than I thought. 

Brian Prime: I hope so. For your sake and for those [00:03:00] attending. Um, yeah, I was excited to see that you were playing a show, um, on the East Coast far from me. Um, that was disappointing. Um, I did take it personally.

Um, yeah, of course, of course. You know where I am. Actually. You don't 'cause you asked the other day. 

Jamie Blacker: Well, no, I, I, I literally, tried to find the furthest point America from you to play so that you would feel that personal attack in the most severe way. Okay. 

Brian Prime: Mission accomplished.

I did. I took it very personally. But, uh, it's exciting that you're gonna be playing the East Coast and I'm looking forward to seeing you at Dark Force Fest next year. Of course, uh, not to get too ahead of ourselves with all the travel you've already been doing, but uh, also looking forward to that.

It'll be your first time playing Dark Force. Is that right? 

Jamie Blacker: Yeah. How long has it been going? 

Brian Prime: That's a great question. Five years now or something like that. I know it began as a, what's cool about it is that it started as a convention, so a lot of the, there's some [00:04:00] holdover from that. So there are a lot of people who wear costumes and like, you know, there's Star Wars cosplay walking through the event and people in, you know, I, one year that I was there, like went into one of the rooms and like there was a guy, a Cyrex costume from Mortal Kombat, just like breaking it down on the dance floor.

So it's, it's cool, it's got like a great vibe to it along with like all the vendors and everything. So it feels very community oriented, whereas, and this is not a slight against mechanisms at all, which I've had the pleasure of seeing you at a couple times now. But mechanisms feels much more like a performance, a focus on these bands and Yeah.

Yeah. So this is an interesting blend of that, and I think that it's a good opportunity because it has that angle to expose people to artists like yourself, you know, like the person who comes for whatever on the lineup, or maybe they don't come from the lineup at all. There are plenty of people who go just to go and [00:05:00] see their friends, uh, but it's a chance for them to like, be exposed to artists like yourself who are going to blow the fucking roof off that place.

So, uh, 

Jamie Blacker: yeah, I, I'll definitely try it. It sounds really interesting. I, I'll be honest, I, um, I don't know a great deal about it. Um. Which makes me sound like I got my head in the sun. But yeah, it does sound interesting and uh, I'm very happy to be part of it and, uh, I just, do you know what it is? I'll be completely honest, when I come to America, it's never really about the show because I've been, because I've been coming there for so long now.

I mean, obviously ESA is reaching, its like 22nd year or whatever, one of the first shows I played was in New York, so I've managed to pick up a load with some strays and mates and fools or whatever over there. And really when I come to America, it, for me, it's [00:06:00] just a chance to catch up with people.

Because as you will probably invariably agree that, most people go to the same events. So if it's a few years between, you know, shows, for me it's just a chance to, you know, I just really look forward to meeting up with people and seeing where they are in their lives, a few years in between.

So yeah, it sounds like Dark Force, dark Force Fest will bring a lot of usual suspects and new people as well. So I just really look forward to like, you know, catching up with people. Yeah, totally. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. No, uh, agree. Same feeling for me, uh, after going to the, some of these festivals multiple times.

Multiple years. Sorry, there's a car passing outside. I background noise and stuff. I live in a neighborhood. It's, 

Jamie Blacker: it's okay. I have a train coming outside. Don't worry about it. Okay. 

Brian Prime: All right. Sweet. You know, I mean, listeners just have to understand like, we live in homes in different places, that 

Jamie Blacker: it's not very rock and roll though, is it?

No. I should be living inside an industrial warehouse in, uh, the middle of the woods. 

Brian Prime: Mm-hmm. I should be [00:07:00] living inside of a recording studio and just, so my podcast sounds perfect or whatever. But. I do agree with you and that sentiment holds true. Is that like, regardless of the lineup, I'm probably gonna go but you know, having a banger of a lineup makes it easy.

So yeah, I'm excited to do that and I'm gonna be doing, um, my, so last year I did Void Signal Live, uh, and did, uh, the trivia and, uh, had Matt Hart play against Eric Gottman. And it turned out great. It was fun and like, uh, I had some, I imagine 

Jamie Blacker: that was quite comedic, was it? 

Brian Prime: It was, yeah. It was like fun questions like, um, uh, movie subplots I'm gonna give you the subplot for a movie and you tell me what movie it is, and Oh, that's really 

Jamie Blacker: interesting.

Brian Prime: Yeah. So it was fun. People laughed and it's a fun vibe there. But yeah, it's looking forward to it. I'm a little sad there's no mechanisms this coming year, but understand why. 

Jamie Blacker: Yeah, the guys need a break. They put much, so much effort into that festival. And the thing is, whenever I see [00:08:00] Ali, two or three years in between, he always looks like he's aged about eight years in the most, in the nicest way possible.

It just shows. Yeah, absolutely. He's putting a lot, a lot into it and a lot of passion. Um, but yeah, it's, I think the guys just need a well and break, and I'm sure they'll be back in 2020. 2026. 2027. It's 2027, right? Yeah. 27. Yeah. 

Brian Prime: But aside from festivals and such presumably you are going to make another music video for this record.

Jamie Blacker: How many do you want? 

Brian Prime: I was thinking four. We're getting 

Jamie Blacker: a bit greedy now. Uh, 

Brian Prime: I was thinking four, but if you want, you can make another one, one of those sick ass live performances like you, uh, like you put out in a long ago. So, uh, I'll give you some options there. 

Jamie Blacker: Well, I've already done five, so I've already surpassed your expectation.

Brian Prime: Oh, okay. Why five? I thought I, I, hold on. I just re-watched them 

Jamie Blacker: so there was join our hands. [00:09:00] 

Brian Prime: Oh, okay. I was thinking, yeah, I was only counting like the newer ones. I forgot about Rest. Come together. Yeah. Join our hands. Yeah. Okay. There you go. All right. Well, I guess you can take a break or whatever.

Jamie Blacker: Well, well you think that, but yeah, so there is a, there is a last nail in the coffin that will be arriving as soon as I can get more than 15 minutes in front of an editing suite. Mm-hmm. Um, the forage has already been filmed. Probably the most fun footage, the probably the funnest music video as if, anything could be fun about the bleak universe that is SA.

But I expect the final nail in the coffin to be arrive in December time, something like that. So I will surpass your expectations even more with a six, which is half of the album.

Brian Prime: Oh my goodness. You know, I 

Jamie Blacker: don't think, I think it's a record, right? Yeah. A music video for the whole half of an album.

It's got to be a [00:10:00] record. 

Brian Prime: It's gotta be you're probably competing with like behemoth in there. They make a lot of music videos too uh. Yeah, well done. Fantastic work. I'm looking forward to the next one and my, as a fan thank you. I do enjoy it. I was going to actually comment and stop you when you were like, oh, it's fun.

I, that's not a word that comes to mind when I think about one of your music videos coming out. Is, uh, am I going to enjoy it? Yeah. Is it gonna be art? For sure. Is it gonna be fun? Ooh, maybe not. No. 

Jamie Blacker: Did you ever, did you ever see the, uh, clip of Trent Resner? Uh, I think he was at an opener festival and you'll know the one at the line I'm talking about if you've heard it.

It was something like, are you guys ready to have a good time? And everyone's like, yeah. And he is like, wrong band. We're here for a bad time. Yeah. And sometimes I think about that and I think, how can I make my twist? On that particular line because it probably speaks TOSA's, um, perception as well [00:11:00] that we are here to have a bad time.

Brian Prime: Yeah. The tone for this record is rather reflective and therefore by extension rather grim. I mean, your content sort of usually is right, but this one feels a little more prescient,

Jamie Blacker: yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean, we all just soak at what's going on around us, don't we? Yeah. Um, you know, whether we wanna soak that shit up or not.

But then you mix it up with, you know, your own influences, what you watch 'cause you want to watch it what you listen to, 'cause you want to listen to it. And then outcomes is kind of like churned out butter version of, um, what you're trying to say. But yeah, it's pretty que like, I'm not a particularly bleak person.

I'm, I feel most of the time reasonably joyful. I mean, you wouldn't expect it, but, um, yeah, when it comes to the, the [00:12:00] visuals and the music I'm always trying to think, how can I make this bleecker and how can I make this more, more intense without completely, you know, tilling into mebo and just being like, you know, a cacophony of.

Sounds. So it's always a bit of, um, a thin line, but like, I don't want to give too much away, but something for the horse man is quite a fun track. Maybe there's a clue in what I've just said. 

Brian Prime: Okay. 

Jamie Blacker: Yeah, we'll see. That's got horse samples in it. You can't, you can't be too bleak with horse samples. 

Brian Prime: Yeah.

And it depends on your definition of fun. But as far as making your own work bleak and everything, uh, yeah, mission accomplished. You certainly do. Uh, this one especially. And the music videos don't match. I was watching them and, you know, watching they're just, they're so visceral as you usually deliver.

So well done. Good job. Um, thank you. Yeah. 

Jamie Blacker: I've got a question for you actually. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, sure. [00:13:00] 

Jamie Blacker: So I was, I was watching a, a TikTok, uh, that Lizzo put out a couple of weeks ago. I think she was talking about the deaf of the music video. And, um. I actually, whatever you think about Lizzo, whatever.

But, um, I actually found myself really agreeing with her 'cause I've kind of watched it happen in real time. So I'm not too sure of your age. You know, I wouldn't be so rude to ask, but I was talking to my cinematographer yesterday and we've kind of been here for the rise and the fall of the music video.

Mm-hmm. Like when we were young in school term, we would watch MTV and see like the new Michael Jackson music video or, smells like Teen Spirit blow up or something like that. And music videos were almost like, um, world stopping events, right? 

Like a huge artist would put on music video and the world had kind of stopped spinning and you know, these videos became like bigger than films.[00:14:00] 

And I think when I started making music videos, which was 2015, we were still there. We were still enjoying like attention and there was still a thing. But I think now because the consumption has changed the music videos, I think it's been not dead, but been dying for a few years and I think it's pretty much almost on its way out now.

What do you think about that? 

Brian Prime: I appreciate the question. Thank you. I would, I. I would agree in, in some respects, I think that it a music video and absolutely agree. I'm, I turned 43 in January so I've, experienced that and seeing, you know, how big of a deal a music video could be for an artist.

I mean, it could, be the reason that a song was a hit or not. And it had a lot of sway. And I think that the, they were [00:15:00] once upon a time produced, like you said, to be bigger than films because they were a big commercial, they were a big advertisement. They were a big piece of the. Of the puzzle of the representation to be consumed.

And I think that probably now anybody making a music video like yourself or many of the other artists in our small scene or any scene, I think it is probably being made more just for passion, like to exist as art on its own versus as being a vehicle for the song. But rather a component of, and I would hope that most people are sort of taking that approach because the return on investment, which is what, and he musician has to think about nowadays, right?

Any return on investment is going to be intangible. You're not gonna be able to measure it very well because like, ah, I got so many streams and I got $5 or whatever, but. The thing you made might linger with someone and that person [00:16:00] goes to a show or buys a CD or goes on band camp or whatever, and they're, you don't get to have that data of like, oh, this caused this other thing.

Jamie Blacker: Yeah. I think you got a really, a really decent grasp and a very similar grasp as myself. It really is about the passion. Mm-hmm. Um, and you're certainly not gonna get anywhere near the return back on it. I, I mean, I'm very lucky because I've, my budget is probably lower than somebody else would need to attack the same project, just because I know people, you know, we worked together some time.

But I think what I was gonna say is I think a music video. Just like film because that's, you'd probably agree that my music video is probably touching more on film than absolutely a music video per se. What that it acts as is a conduit to explore the message and the representation of who you are and what you're trying to deliver sonically, [00:17:00] or, you know, the story you're trying to tell.

It's telling a story, right. And I think when you see, you know, when people don't use the opportunity, even if they have the budget to do so, and they either don't make a music video or they make a music video is extremely bland. I just, you know, get us in the studio, we'll sing along for me that kind of, that's why I'm gonna correct that.

I think more the, the latter than the format. 'cause a lot of people do not have the budget and I fully understand that. I feel that very closely, trust me. But. If people do a music video and there's just not a lot going on, it's just like studio recording, whatever. It kind of says to me, there's not really a lot going on there.

What is your music actually about? What are you creatively, what is it? And that, that might be quite a stark comment to make. But we have this ability, you know, somebody gives you a ground to make a music video. You can make something [00:18:00] extremely interesting that can purvey your message.

Alternatively you could just hire a studio for three hours and play some instruments. So I think it, it, it acts as a really nice conduit just to um, just tell the viewer and the listener what it is you're trying to say and what, what makes you excited. And that's what I've always tried to do and I think a lot of other bands do that also.

It's just unfortunate. That in today's current consumption style, the music video doesn't really fit into the puzzle anymore, or not as much as it did? Yeah. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, I would absolutely agree and I do, I, regardless of budget, however small it is, like, effort shows through and trying to create something that serves as a component because yeah, I, there I have seen music videos that are, maybe someone just in a [00:19:00] studio or, dancing in front of a screen and not really, offering much.

And I, it's sort of a bland visual component because sometimes even the song will be more interesting than what is being presented with it. And I'm, you know, I have that feeling of like, what's your music even about? If you it can make things seem simple when, I'm, it could become complex, 

Jamie Blacker: but of course.

Brian, me and you and I are very deep and pretentious, aren't we? So we can share that. Yes. 

Brian Prime: Very deep, very pretentious. Absolutely. But I, you know, I do I, I do have kind of high standards sometimes, but, I, some things can be fun, right? Like, uh, ESA videos reportedly can be fun from what I've heard.

But things are allowed to just be simple or stupid or, whatever. But like some self-awareness that that's what it's, you know, I just feel, uh, and I, anyway, uh, to get off my high horse so to speak. But, so with that [00:20:00] in mind, do you think that 'cause I definitely, I mean like music videos are, the short form content is like, it's good for that maybe of like making a commercial for yourself, I guess, of like, here, listen to my song for 15 seconds or whatever.

But do you see yourself continuing, you know, you mentioned ESA being 22 years old now, or whatever it is, uh, that's old enough to drink legally here in the states. And, uh, go d in a war, a good analogy. Take on credit card debt, uh, all kinds of things. Can't run a car though. So little ESA has to, hold out.

But America, yep. Can go die in a war and drink, but you can't run a car. Uh. But with that said, you know, 22 years is a long time. I've been a fan of yours for most of that. Do you see yourself continuing to try and make a visual component to go with it? 

Jamie Blacker: It's really interesting you've asked that. It's almost like you've had a bit of insider information there, [00:21:00] Brian.

You know, six music videos from one album. It's probably obvious to anybody that follows me closely that that's quite an ambitious like it's quite a statement, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Put out six, you know, half the album music videos. And it's basically because every idea that I've ever had, I'm like, okay, fuck it.

We're gonna, we're just gonna go for this. I've got this little period in my life where I think I can get all this stuff done, which I was actually wrong and things turned pier, but somehow I managed to bully off. Kind of like a little bit of a self-imposed mountains climb, just to see if I could just drain myself of all that creative of ideas.

Because you know, as you get older responsibilities become more dunno what the right word is, but your obligations increase. Mm. So I'm not sure going forward how much time I'll have to put into music videos, just the time, [00:22:00] the energy the money as well. So we'll just have to see. I mean, the thing is, I say this to everybody I know.

I say, okay, that's the last one. I can't, I just don't have the energy front of one much like Ali at the last night of me. Yeah, right. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, exactly. He's always like, looks exhausted and, you know, 

Jamie Blacker: That's me after a shoot. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. I believe it. And it's, 

Jamie Blacker: it's probably me for a full week after a shoot.

Um, it's probably me after a, a seven hour editing session as well. Mm-hmm. Um, but I definitely don't want this sound negative 'cause it's not, because, I've really enjoyed what I'm doing, but I think we just have to wait and see. The problem is, and this is what I was gonna say, I, I've said this to many people, like, okay, that's it.

But then I have this really annoying thing when I wake up with ideas. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh fuck. Yeah. And then I know I'm starting down that road again, and I'm not sure if it's like personality disorder or whatever, but I'm like, unless until I do it, until [00:23:00] I realize it, it's just there like this fucking thing in the back of my brain and I'm doing all my important stuff in life and getting all the real, the realistic things done.

But then I've got this little fucking thing in the back of my head going, you see, you still got that thing to do. You still have that idea, right? You're gonna do it. Right. So, and I don't know if other people feel the same way. But yeah, I really struggle to kind of like, put that in the bin.

It's always gonna be there. So my short answer to a long answer is we'll just have to win three, really. 

Brian Prime: Sure. And I, I feel that as well. So I imagine that other people feel it too. Right. But I think the difference per person there is just like maybe the, maybe the drive. You're, you're a very driven person and, uh, your ideas are presumably very insistent.

Which I think kind of comes through in the fact that [00:24:00] like a psychopath, you mean? Yeah.

I didn't, I mean, feel, 

Jamie Blacker: feel free to psychoanalyzing me, Brian, if you wish. 

Brian Prime: Uh, Ooh, I don't want to do that. We don't have that much time. Um, so, but yeah, I, I, it, I feel like it comes through because like you are so, prolific and, you know, you've done a lot and turned a lot of these ideas into product not to use a capitalist word about it, uh, for a piece of art, but you know, you've.

Produced pieces that move and breathe and, and make noise and impact people. So I think your dedication is admirable. And I just have to say, just really quick on that note, and I meant to mention it before, but you music videos and the effort you put into it in your production and everything is always so far and away distinct and a little bit of a cut above what what other [00:25:00] people are, are producing.

And, uh, it really shows. Yeah. Again, well done. Well, thank you. Yeah, 

Jamie Blacker: no, I appreciate that. I'll be honest, there was a point in Thailand when, uh, and I've written about this, 'cause I think, I felt like it was an experience that was worth riding about. Mm-hmm. There was, there was a point in Thailand where it'd been like.

I don't know if you know much about Thailand, but in rainy season it goes from like, blistering sunshine and peaceful skies to like the kind of storms that you see on movies. Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, for two solid days before that shoot, it was ripping markets up outside the hotel, you know, you walk outside at your own peril kind of thing.

I'm not, but maybe exaggerating slightly, but not by much. People did get killed, so. Mm-hmm. Um, like there was a point when I was in a hotel and it'd been raining all day and I was like, how do we do this? Like literally try to strip back all the emotion from it, but [00:26:00] look at the situation from a really logical black and white view and be like, yeah, how am I going to do this tonight?

Because we've got all the equipment, we've got the actors. We're in a, a very difficult area of. Film, which is Chinatown, which is the busiest area of Bangkok. I'm like, how do we get through this chaos? And then I was just like, stop thinking about it. Just go out there and um, you know, get the first shot and then see what happens.

Because otherwise you're just gonna regret it. And, um, yeah, we just got one shot and then we're like, okay, can we get another? Okay, let's get another. And then slowly the rain started to ease as if the tie gots were like, alright, you've put the effort in, we'll we'll help you out a little bit. Sure. So yeah.

And you know, five, it got to 5:00 AM and we finished and I was like, fuck me, I think we've done it. And um, yeah, it was, I just knew that if I [00:27:00] didn't, didn't attempt it. Then I'd regret it for, you know, years down the line. 'cause pain is, uh, temporary, isn't it? Like it can be awful at the time, but it's only temporary once you've had a shower and maybe two good nights sleep, it's you're back to normal again.

So, 

yeah. 

Yeah, that, that was probably my biggest challenge and probably the biggest example of the drive that you're talking about, which just wouldn't give in basically. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Agree. And, uh, you know, I do, I have used you know, I'm always like over ambitious with like, things I want to do for the show and things.

So like, I'm, I want to do another Halloween special this year and, you know mm-hmm. Halloween's. Imminent and, uh, we're a little light on stories still, and I haven't, been able to spend a lot of time on the void signal, but, I've, I'm still gonna try and do it because if I don't then, two weeks from now I'm gonna be like, ah, fuck.

I [00:28:00] wanted to do that thing I like to do and Yep. Uh, you know, I'm not necessarily making it for everybody else so much as just like, I wanna make this and I wanna make it as good as I can, and I rely a lot on my charm and on. How's that working 

Jamie Blacker: out for you? 

Brian Prime: Pretty good so far from being honest about it.

Actually, uh, it has gotten me very far but charm and, uh, some luck. A lot of luck. Uh, a lot of just like, oh yeah, well, great. I'm just like such a lovable scam that, you know, things just, yeah, exactly. Things just kind of fall into place for me. So that's my secret, I 

Jamie Blacker: think. I think whenever you rely on other people, that's always gonna, bring obstacles.

And the way to get around that is paying people. And obviously that works for me. I make sure that ev I make sure that everybody gets paid even if it's not a great deal. So I, I don't have to worry about like other people's i've forgotten the word, but their commitment, I guess. Sure. But for you, you are kind [00:29:00] of like, you know, you are not going out paying everybody and, and neither should you.

Um, it's a chance for them to kind of be platformed. But yeah, if you're relying on other people to deliver something to you and it's 2025 and everyone's got busy lives, I imagine that's quite a, a difficult position 'cause mm-hmm. All you really wanna do is message someone every five hours and say, have you got it sorted yet?

Have you got it sawed yet? But you can't do that 'cause then you just go from lovable scamp to something else. 

Brian Prime: Oh, you're trying to tell me something I, no, '

Jamie Blacker: cause I never get those messages every five hours and I Okay, great. I don't believe that you, you do do that. Um, uh, 

Brian Prime: not anymore. It kind of depends.

I mean, it kind of depended upon like my relationship to the person too. 'cause if it was like, if somebody was like. If we were close, then I'm gonna be, annoying because the tolerances are higher, but yeah. Yeah. Um, agree. And that does work out, uh, a lot of the time. But like you said, and something that I kind of wanted to, you know, sort of tie these things together.

You mentioned [00:30:00] that pain is temporary and that people have busy lives. I'll put this question to you. Do you feel that in an age of authenticity, when people are so busy that they don't have time for as much or maybe the sort of social pleasantries or social etiquette that we're normally accustomed to do you feel that we're living in a time that is much too direct or too brutal at times?

Jamie Blacker: That's interesting. In the real world. I don't think so as much in the fabricated online world. Certainly. I think, um, I think the internet has created a whole heap of pain and it's changed people's where it's like changed the [00:31:00] wiring of people's brains and how they communicate how they deliver themselves.

And I think if you are someone who spends a lot of time on the internet, which I try not to do but still find myself doom scrolling at times and then literally have to catch myself and stop because it's built to do that, right? It's built to keep you addicted. It, it's not, it's not a, a chance thing.

When you, when you go out and communicate with people. I think that facade kind of drips away a little bit and there is still you mentioned social pleasantries. I think in the real world that is probably not as impacted as one might think, although I do again, think that the online world has made people adjust slightly different, slightly in their delivery and how they speak to people.[00:32:00] 

And I think it's extremely sad. And as a, as an Asian guy feel quite concerned about it, what do you think? 

Brian Prime: I would agree and I. You know, while I am a proponent of transparency and honesty and being direct, I do find it to be, uh, yeah, I do find that like sort of the online world has sort of is a lot more vitriolic at times.

Um, just very sort of, I am going to, in the space of a couple of words, I'm going to express this feeling or this emotion that I'm feeling and I'm gonna spray it all over whatever the topic or subject is, and however many people are gonna see it, will see it. And it's this sort of condensed version of a [00:33:00] person's, thoughts or bigger argument or whatever.

So I feel like we're just sort of getting snippets of. Hard direct criticism a lot, uh, in a lot of online social interactions. And I, I feel it's at times we seek that out too. And I think that's okay at times, right? Like, oh, what a shit show this is, let me look at the comments and see how much of a shit show it is and what other people have had to say.

And, ah, yeah, I agree. Fuck that guy, or whatever. But I do think that it can, maybe this is just me talking out my ass or whatever, but it feels like it could potentially cause a bit of a buildup of just too much. And I mean, that's certainly, there's certainly too much of everything nowadays, but yeah, I don't know.

Not to get too deep, but I just, feeling that today. 

Jamie Blacker: Well, I think, I think if you, the more people you talk to, the, the people that aren't shouting online, I think [00:34:00] those people. The more people you talk to, the, let's call them asylum the more you'll realize they agree with you. Not suggest not so good or a bad thing, but people intentionally say vitriolic things and condense things, as you say.

In order to I suppose attract more attention. I think the real issue here is the, the way that social media platforms are built and they are built with advertising in mind. And I certainly don't want to use this as a segue to one of my music videos, but ruts comes together, is kind of about that.

It's um, you've got these social media platforms which play an enormous part in everybody's life now, and they are basically the whole, the. Vehicle is run on advertising. So they [00:35:00] will push via the algorithm the most intense stuff because people look at that, they're interested in that, just like they were hundreds of years ago, but in different ways when they used to turn up to hangings and whatever.

It's all part of human nature to look for intense things, to get, like excitement, to break up the rigidity of modern day life. So the algorithm will push that content because it'll have more advertising agency. So it's a really it, it's this architect. We're all architects of our own demise really.

'cause we all are addicted to that kind of. I'm, I'm struggling for the right word, but sensationalist, I guess. 

Brian Prime: Sure, yeah. It does feel like it is maybe feed, feeding us a poison of just like we're being [00:36:00] fed only what we wanna see. And unfortunately for some of us, a lot of us want to see the worst.

And I think that, um, well I can, 

Jamie Blacker: can I give you a very good example? For 

Brian Prime: sure. 

Jamie Blacker: So I have a, a friend who's probably completely the polar opposite demographic to me. And we speak very frankly, and I, as a, a white cis, 44-year-old guy will be delivered content. She also gets delivered the same content.

Exactly the same content, however, it's edited differently. So she will send it to me and say, look at this. I'll say, oh shit, I saw that yesterday. And it will be the same footage edited differently, different captions, different sound, whatever. Both leaning towards our demographics. I mean, that is insane to me.[00:37:00] 

And it is like the biggest example, it's like a personification of the problem. Like I'm being assumed as a cis y guy, you wanna see this. Like this will make you feel a certain way. And she's getting the same content delivered differently to, you know, tap into what her expected emotions and alliances and, ideals are.

And, uh, it's really sinister, Brian. It's really like heinous. And that's, to me it's a dystopia. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of exactly what, what rats come together was about. Propaganda is a word that's thrown about quite a lot, but all information is propaganda depending on how you massage it, and her getting this kind of content and massaged in that particular way and me getting massage in a different way for a different intention for a different result, it's fucking scary and it [00:38:00] makes me want to just.

Live in a cabin in the woods and just have no, and just, just go completely off grid. I can think about it every day. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. And agree. And it, and it's extra sort of disconcerting when the algorithm will suddenly decide like, Hey, 43-year-old cis white guy you wanna watch this ad for, some incel thing, you know what I mean?

Like some sort of like extremely right wing out of the blue. Like, Hey, young man, uh, let's tell you, we're gonna tell you all about how women and the government have conspired to sell you these pills to grow your hair back and make your dick hard or whatever. And it feels like such a and if it's happening to me.

Then it's definitely happening to other people who are, well, 

Jamie Blacker: well go ahead. Well, before I forget this [00:39:00] point. Sure. Lemme just say this, you, we have seen the most intelligent people on the planet. I mean, like, incredibly intelligent, astute, aware people fall into these traps. Mm-hmm. So these traps are built specifically for an emotional response.

And, uh, again, I don't wanna segue into sounds for happiness, but that's exactly what it's about. It's, they are engineered to create an emotional response. And when you watch some of the most, complex, intelligent minds fall into this trap and end up going down a road. I don't wanna say cult because I think coal is overused as well as well, but you see people, they're incredibly astute and smart people falling into these traps.

Nobody's safe. Nobody's safe. And uh, what I will say, and this is quite provocative you might wanna, as a general [00:40:00] rule, just stop and think how has that person been led down that path? You know, how do we connect with them? How do we bring them back, before, like, I dunno, making your assumption, I guess.

And I do try and do that, although it's a very, it's very hard. It's very hard to just, you know, have an emotional response to an emotional response. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. And I do, I think that que question is maybe painfully relevant right now of how do you bring somebody back from something like that, from a viewpoint that, that feels so contrary to.

Living a life in a global community where there are other humans that you have to share space with. Uh, you know, I don't care. I will go ahead and bring this up. Um, recently Dark Force West had a band that was dropped with what I feel is good reason. But I [00:41:00] think there's a lot of, there's been a lot of rhetoric to follow that that has been a lot of this sort of, it is a false narrative of persecution and, ah, I'm being silenced for my viewpoints or whatever.

And it's like the viewpoints are hostile to people. They are hostile to the community that is going to be. In attendance of this event. So why some voices, some voices don't get to be heard. And I think that can be a good thing. As controversial as, and shitty as that sounds. I promise. I'm not a fascist.

I just, you know, the, there are, we don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. 

Jamie Blacker: Well, that's the dichotomy again, isn't it? And here we are having an interview or podcast chat, whatever, and it just shows how powerful this is, the fact that all rules lead to this kind of conversation. Mm-hmm. And I think that [00:42:00] is a very big signal of that dystopian situation that I mentioned.

I think we're in that's really concerning. Like, that's just flagged up to me that a lot of the time. And this is absolutely no slight to you whatsoever. This is just general observation. This shows how much this, um, this is featuring the fact that, you know, you could start off any conversation about anything and all roads lead to back to this kind of thing.

Specifically the situation in question. At this point, I'm tuning out. I'm completely honest with you. There's just so much information that, I mean, I'm a, I'm about as liberal as it gets. I don't think it's any, I don't think it's any surprise to anybody who's seen my music videos on my kind of outlook generally on life and how much I think everybody should get to live their lives, how they [00:43:00] want to live.

And nobody should be oppressing anybody as long as they're not oppressing people. That is, that will always be my viewpoint. But yeah, there is just so much stuff going on. And, uh, sometimes for your own mental safety, you just gotta tune out a little bit. And I think a lot of people are feeling like that.

Yeah. But I just think it's interesting how we talk about music videos, talk about an album, and then kind of all roads lead back to this. And it's, it just very, very typical and I understand it completely, but it does concern me. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. A sign of the times perhaps. I don't want to keep you too long. Two last things I will well, one last thing I will ask you which is just the last question of the show.

What is something that you have been enjoying recently? You know, now that we've gotten nice and glim and, or not glim, but you know, gloomy and grim and everything. Uh, what is, oh, G'S the right word. Yeah, [00:44:00] yeah. Gli probably fits a little bit better, but what's something that you've been enjoying recently that, makes you excited to get out of bed every day?

Jamie Blacker: Cutting up cardboard boxes and taking them to the tip, which seems to be, uh, my daily occurrence with just moving house. That's, um, really enjoyable. 

Brian Prime: Taking them to the tip. 

Jamie Blacker: Oh, yeah, the, the tip that's our, uh, that's our cord word for like recycling sensor. 

Brian Prime: Oh, okay. Okay. 

Jamie Blacker: I'm saying this is a little, little slice of British sarcasm.

Brian Prime: Okay, sure. Yes. I'm, I'm not 

Jamie Blacker: enjoying that process whatsoever. 

Brian Prime: I mean, you might, you know, sometimes there can be joy to be found in like, the simple things. I'm like, oh, I'm cutting up cardboard or whatever. I don't know. That would be, yeah. Okay. No, but I'd judge you. Yeah. 

Jamie Blacker: Just getting things sorted out here at the moment.

That is my current current presence of life. But I think I mean, I haven't been watching much TV recently. I couldn't say what's some, what's been on, [00:45:00] I watched weapons a few weeks ago, which I thought was, uh. A fantastic piece of media. 

Brian Prime: I did watch that. You've seen, I just watched that last night actually.

What do you reckon? I did like it. I was the first trailer for it. I was not really all that interested in, but then when it came out I heard like buzz about it and I was like, okay, let's revisit. I did like it. I liked the sort of I liked the mystery around it and the presentation for the individual stories and then tying it all together, uh, made a film that is.

I'll touch long. But I feel like the format allows it to get away with that length a little bit better than if it had just been two straight hours of whatever. And plus it's, I'm such a fan and such a sucker for like, uh, here's this scenario, or here's this narrative, but taken from the point of view of someone else who was there and how their perception of these [00:46:00] events, uh, might be seen.

And I'm, I love that in any film, so I did, I did quite like it. Yeah, I agree. What about you? What do you think? 

Jamie Blacker: The reason I like it is because, I love horror, but a lot of horrors, like what I can't stand is horror that's predictable. Where you, you basically, you know, you're gonna sit down to watching how, you know, six people in a group die.

Like I've got zero interest in that. It's, um, there's just nothing new. But what really gets me with. Some of the better horror films recently is where you don't know what's gonna happen next. Like it's, um, it's an actual story. Like it's a really, we well-written story. And I think Weapons was a, a really fantastic example of that.

Like I had no idea what was gonna happen. Like it was generally genuinely a story that was being told in chapters. Mm-hmm. Um, and that really turns me on anything where I just don't know what's gonna happen next. Yeah. Like to me, that's the sign of a very good, [00:47:00] you know, script. Um, but also on top of that it was shot beautifully.

It was, you know, a lot of really interesting shots. So yeah, I really liked weapons and obviously it's, um, some great actors in there as well. So yeah. And other than that, all I'm listening to is John Coltrane and Otis. Otis Rush. At the moment I'm having a big jazz and, uh, blues. Um. Kind of binge at the moment, just 'cause it's chilling me out.

Sure. I dunno if you dunno if you're into any of the, the, the old, but, uh, you know, that's, that's mostly what I'm listening to. 

Brian Prime: It's not really my flavor. But, you know, then again, I'm not, I'm not you who's making crafting like, this, you know, sonic assault, uh, that you make and, you know, having this outlet for, uh, the very fun and accessible ESA that you produce.

Um, I'm excited to see what your definition of fun is. That's, uh, I'm looking forward [00:48:00] to that.

Jamie Blacker: How you deliver something is all about the editing. I have a, I have two roads. I could go down with the editing of this. 

I could do what my belly is telling me to do and just make it like boarding on a comedy video.

Or I could, um, be very serious and staunch about it and, you know, deliver it with the discipline it probably deserves. Yeah. So I've, uh, until I get sat down and start looking at the footage with a very microscopic eye I'm unsure of which direction I'll go in. And that, that should be the exciting part.

I think that's the surprise. No one really knows where it's gonna go to. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Uh, one of each maybe like, ah, this is the mining Python cut, and then this is the serious one.

Jamie Blacker: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's maybe a great idea. Maybe just for like a little bit of the video. Yeah. Just say, well, yeah.

This is the, um, like you said, here is the, the slapstick version. Here is the, um, yeah. Yeah. The Pure Jet Black Discipline version. [00:49:00] 

Brian Prime: Yeah, the usual ESA flavor. Yeah. I always answer the question myself, of course. So, I've be, what have I been enjoying? I DJ'ed a thing Friday night. I've had only DJ'ed only once before, like a little short 45, 2 45 minute sets up in Spokane.

Thanks to my homie and yours, Ryan Hollingsworth. Good month. Yeah, love that guy. Uh, so went up there, DJ'ed for him, and then turned out that a hookah lounge in Carson City, Nevada, just south of Reno, needed a dj. And then I found out I was the only person doing it and, and, uh, then found out it was the first time they were ever doing it and decided to just connect with the owner and the promoter and give it a name.

And I called it the under lounge, which is I try Oh very. Thank you. I try to be humble about my ideas, but this is a pretty good one. Um, yeah, played some ESA to people's delight last night, uh, or [00:50:00] chagrin. Oh, really? Or chagrin maybe. I don't know. But yeah, people seem to, to enjoy it and I, I had a good time and, yeah, I mean, it was a hookah lounge, so there's not a lot of dancing to be had, but, um, that certainly didn't stop me from playing, like, uh, the other thing I've been enjoying recently since you mentioned music, um, a lot of funk and a lot of hard style.

Ooh. Yeah. There's something just sort of really raw and visceral about both of them, and they both have that like. Ah, that like amped up energy that like when fun comes on, I feel like I could flip a cop car. Just get outta here cop car. Take that you piece of shit. Oh, like it's why Yeah, it's, uh, it's pretty strong.

Jamie Blacker: No, that's, that's probably the only genre I've not had a little, um, little poke around that. Oh, so maybe I'll, uh, maybe you should select some of your choice cuts and I'll try and suck it into my, my orbit. 

Brian Prime: Okay. We'll do so. Your orbit is so sucky as it is. So, uh, there's so [00:51:00] many other things, but I will try.

Jamie Blacker: That Sounds like harassment to me, dude. 

Brian Prime: Well, uh, you know, that's part of being onvoy signal. Sorry. That's how it goes. But, uh, you're 

Jamie Blacker: inviting me to your under lounge. Yeah. So you can get into a sucky orbit, 

Brian Prime: That's going on the next poster. That's 

Jamie Blacker: great. Excellent. That's a quote for me as a, 

Brian Prime: yeah. Thank you so much for that.

It's gonna sell, I mean, no tickets 'cause there's no cover, but oh, I did get $50 worth of tips, so that was pretty sweet. Uh, like, well, you're 

Jamie Blacker: making more than I do as a performer, so well don't 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Take that. I just had to play your music. Yeah. Thank you for sending me your album, by the way. I appreciate that.

Of course. Um, I'm a poor person, so I, you know, I appreciate the homie hookup. 

Jamie Blacker: Can I, uh, can I just quickly 

finish off of this story? Yeah, sure. Just to connect to what you just said. You say that you got paid $50 for play my music, which is fantastic. I, uh, I've not DJ'ed very much 'cause I'm not a dj.

It's a [00:52:00] craft. I'm not, I'm not confident in. But I, uh, I once DJ'ed uh, the Fetish Club in Seattle and I played what I thought was a really sexy sets. There was, uh, lots of very hard power noise, but the stuff that's really hot the stuff that's very sexy and, uh, I got a note thrown at me. I cleared the dance floor in about 14 seconds and, uh, I got a note thrown at me from one of the locals who has had to head to, to in PVC except for a pair of glasses.

He looked like an accountant that was, uh, had been sort the, I dunno, maybe a close store called the Under Lounge. I don't know. But he, uh, he brought an he. He threw a note at me that said, thanks for clearing the dance floor. You asshole. 

Brian Prime: Wow. Holy shit. And 

Jamie Blacker: uh, well that's not the best bit. The best bit is I finished my set on, I think it was a manufacturer track or something like that, and, uh, Jason Berg came up from God module, who's the [00:53:00] regular dj, and he opened his set with an ESA track and Yep, the whole dance floor filled right back 

up.

Brian Prime: Oh man. That is pure poetry. That is so good. 

Jamie Blacker: It, um, this, there's, there's gotta be some kind of messaging in there or some kind of, um, 

yeah, there's some message for me in there, but yeah, yeah, I was completely, uh, I was ostracized completely and then somebody, somebody filled it up with the music that I make, which is.

Brian Prime: Yeah, 

Jamie Blacker: some sort of, um, yeah. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Sounds like a, some sort of weird gypsy curse that you have. Apparently. 

Jamie Blacker: Yeah. I should just not dj. Yeah, don't dj. 

Brian Prime: And I don't want to make it sound like I know what the fuck I'm doing either. Like I, the, I'm just, I'm pushing one button to make the next song play when this one finishes and that's it.

I don't know how to do anything fancy or transition or a live mix or anything. We're just keeping it simple. I'll keep a soundtrack going [00:54:00] and don't worry, it'll be good. But I've, I, you know, I've had success with that now twice, be part of the reason I got tips. People were stopping me all night of like, oh, I love your taste.

And, um, everything you picked was so good. And Hollingsworth had sort of mentioned the same thing to me. Is that like, big portion of being a DJ and not to rub this in, in your case, is, is about what you pick and is about, like what you end up playing and what reading the crowd. Yeah.

Yeah, reading the crowd, which I fuck the 

Jamie Blacker: crowd. 

Brian Prime: I 

Jamie Blacker: play when I walk. That's why I'm failing. So I walk up there, I'm like, fuck you. This is my, this is my hour. I'm gonna play this Siberian. Power noise acts, this made up of old women. And it doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's my problem. 

Brian Prime: I did the same thing admittedly, like originally I'd asked, um, one of the local DJs here, like, oh, what should I play?

And, what kind of, 'cause it was originally advertised as an, as a goth night. And I'm like, Ooh, let's [00:55:00] not call it that because I don't really want to play golf music and uh, I'll, I just played whatever, like funk and hard style and industrial and covers and whatever. Uh, so it went well.

So maybe if you just, were, uh, maybe if your own personal music choice wasn't so dense or maybe, or, inaccessible, maybe you'd have better luck. Not that you need to dj, go on with your life. You have better shit to do. Keep making the music and we'll, other people will play it.

Jamie Blacker: Yeah. I mean, I know you're right, but I'm still not gonna do it. Yeah. 

Brian Prime: Okay, great. Perfect. No notes. Um, 

Jamie Blacker: so we roll. 

Brian Prime: All right. Well, I don't want to keep you any longer. Thank you so much for your time for letting me impose on you. If you have five or 10 minutes in the next day or two to just voice note over like [00:56:00] a quick little ghosty kind of a story for the Halloween special, I would appreciate it.

If you don't, I'm not gonna be upset because you're fucking busy and it's a big ask, but yeah, it would be, didn't 

Jamie Blacker: I give you like my whole, you gave me 

Brian Prime: childhood life story? Yeah. You gave me a fucking great one and set the bar so high. I've had other people send in stories and I'm like, oh, fucking Jamie just killed it.

Not as good. 

Jamie Blacker: Well, let's be honest. If I sold my story. The right to, um, a film company, I'll probably make a lot of money. 

Brian Prime: You probably would, 

Jamie Blacker: because I've seen films with less substance than the experience I had as a kid. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. Uh, which is why, so, yeah, I, yeah, go on. I was just gonna say, which is why your story is so good.

I, I was actually thinking of taking your original story and just kind of like re like remastering it now that I have like a better idea of like how to use my audio software and stuff and like include it in the new one as well, like, along with like a selection of like the best ones I've gotten or something because it's so good.

Yeah. 

Jamie Blacker: You could do a [00:57:00] best of, couldn't you? Yeah. I mean, I thank you for telling me that my, uh, the most traumatic time of my life is, has worked out for you. Good to know. 

Brian Prime: Yep. 

Sure did. 

Jamie Blacker: Well, as long as it, you know, that's obviously what it was aiming at. As long as it had a Yeah. You know, a good result for you.

Brian Prime: It's a net positive because like not only did you get to grow from it, but I did as well. 

Jamie Blacker: I'm, I'm pretty sure it stunted my growth if I'm

You seem fine. I mean, don't blame it on that. Uh, yeah, well, yeah, we talk about oblique. The music is, you seem fine. Yeah, yeah. It's obviously not had an impact on you. 

Brian Prime: You make air quote fun music videos or whatever. 

Jamie Blacker: I mean, there's gotta be a reason. I mean, it's probably a genuine contributor as to why my brain works the way it works.

If you are seeing weird shit here in weird shit, talking to fucking old men when you're fucking five years old. Yeah. Then. It's gonna, it's gonna sit in your [00:58:00] subconscious somewhere, isn't it? 

Brian Prime: Yeah. That does explain a lot about you now that I, now that you put it that way. Uh, yeah, thank you so much for this and, uh, yeah, if you have any other random stories, maybe not from the childhood or whatever, but just anything else you wanna share, cool.

I'd appreciate it. If not, it's no fucking big deal. Thank you again for, not just taking the time for the chat. Um, it's always good to talk to you and hear your thoughts on things, but for the music and for continuing to make it and have a presence and. The little scene that we find ourselves in.

It has been, you mentioned it being 22 years old and not to get too sentimental. But that's a long, that's a huge portion of my life. You know, I remember like listening to ESA when I was getting married like 20 years ago or whatever. And uh, I'm divorced now. Wow. But I'm still married to ESA in my heart, so 

Jamie Blacker: Oh my God.

You were working up to that line, weren't you? Yeah, I was. 

Brian Prime: I, yeah, that's just [00:59:00] 

Jamie Blacker: me. Did you did you have ESA 

as your first dance music? 

Brian Prime: Uh, I did not. When you got married? No. 

Jamie Blacker: Oh no. Well, that's where your marriage has obviously gone wrong. 

Brian Prime: Yeah, that's probably what it was. That's probably what it was.

Yeah. Uh, so the 

Jamie Blacker: next time you, you 

propose and you do, it starts to go down that road. You need to play the gallows you built for yourself. 

Brian Prime: Oh, okay. 

Jamie Blacker: Um, as your first dance. And, and you'll be, you'll be absolutely. Absolutely fine. 

Brian Prime: Oh, okay. Not Saturnalia which would be my second choice for, 

Jamie Blacker: or it will never be enough.

Yeah. It's a cracker for a first down. 

Brian Prime: Yeah. That one too. Yep. Excellent. Good choices. All right my friend. Thank you so much for your time and Of course, uh, yeah, thank you for everything. Have a good rest of your evening and I'll be in touch with you when this comes out. 

Jamie Blacker: Thank you. And I will see you in May.

Brian Prime: Yes, I will see you in May. Alright, have a good one. Cheers. Alright, boss. 

Jamie Blacker: Cheers. Bye-Bye. 

[01:00:00] Bye.